I have been reading this Eternal Dialogue guy too much... I have little to say and more to ask. Maybe that's good, maybe that's bad... who knows? Well, I have another question that I would like some feedback on:

Is it better to stay in the "denomination" (ick) you were raised in and accept a more "catholic" theology/orthodoxy rather than make a transition into a more catholic/orthodox stream of the christian faith?

I have heard good arguments on both sides.

Our buddy Hauerwas says it's best to "stay with the people that harmed you." Of course this avoids the so-called modernist tendencies to think the grass to be greener on the other side. It also revives a heroic vision of the sole orthodox person amongst apostasy and decay, a martyr of sorts. Some call that following in the example of the prophet Nehemiah.

Rusty Reno, on the other hand, has left his Epsicopal roots for Rome. He feels that the "Nehemiah Vision" is out of context and that it is only a mental theory and not a true spiritual practice. One thing he says we all need to keep in mind is that all churches, no matter what their stream, are "in the ruins." We are awaiting the restoration and everything is not as it will be.

Here is the article that made bring it up.

Here's my position: I don't know. I seek and pray for God to show me his will. I would love, honestly, to join the Roman Catholic church, for the avaliability, but I have some problems with it as well. I don't know where I fit. I love the organic nature of many "emerging churches," "neo-monastic communities," and plain ol' meetings on the street corner with a guitar and a couple bystanders. It seems more real than either off-the-top-of-your-head pentecostal/baptist prayers and sermons, dry repetitive spirit-less liturgy of the dying modernist churches, or anonymity of the evangelical mega-production/church. "Stay with the people that harmed you." I can't do that. I can't stay with the pentecostal/charismatic junk I grew up with. I love them as sisters and brothers in our common Lord and Savior, but I refuse their doctrine to the point full disregard. I don't know. I am about to take off for the Eucharist celebration at the Episcopal church. Maybe the priest will have some time to discuss these things.

God be with us all.

Hey everyone! I guess I haven't had a theology related post in a while.. and guess what, I'm not starting now! Haha! I dunno, I haven't had too much time to keep up with this thing but that will all change soon. I am getting into the routine of a new semester and I will begin to improve with my time-management soon enough... Back up to 19 cr. hours (Health and Wellness added) and loving it! Finals week will be hell...

For my hist. 101 course I have been allowed to write my paper (book critique) on the early church. I am using Chadwick's book (you can glance at it on my Library Thing) and was hoping one or two of you may have had some experience with this guy... any luck?

I need some people to review my paper when it has been finished. Any takers?

Oh, just for a convo starter: What's your position on hell? We have had this discussion before but may as well bring it up again. What the hell is... you guessed it, hell?

Praised be You, my Lord, through those who give pardon for
Your love
and bear infirmity and tribulation.
Blessed are those who endure in peace
for by You, Most High, they shall be crowned.

Praised be You, my Lord, through our Sister Bodily Death,
from whom no living man can escape.
Woe to those who die in mortal sin.
Blessed are those whom death will find in Your most holy will,
for the second death shall do them no harm.
Praise and bless my Lord and give Him thanks
and serve Him with great humility.

One year older. 18 now.

I am to write a chapter for an upcoming book published by a group of people known as the "brat pack." What all that entails, I am not sure of yet. I am not entirely sure where I want to go with this, so I thought I would bounce a couple ideas off of your unsuspecting little e-heads.

My first thought is to write a more personal bit. My own spitituality. More specifically, my gradual and continuing transition into a more liturgical approach to faith. My recent visit to Vine and Branches was a very encouraging time for me. A community can be both intimate and traditional. Who would have guessed? Well, I would write on my observations of this tradition and why I feel that it is right for me to move this direction... Thoughts?

Local Ecumenics. I know that there is a fancy name for this, I am just unsure of what it's called. Oh yah, being the church! Communion at the denominational level is fine and dandy, but for all you evangelicals, when was the last time you invited your Catholic sisters and brothers over for a meal and joined together in prayer at the end? That applies to everyone. I am guilty of prejudice against various branches of the faith (some justified, in my view, others not...) and could work on that. This would end up being more of a confessional than anything... Thoughts?

That's it. I'm 110% open to suggestions!

Yes, my birthday is coming up. The big one-eight. I am very happy. Kind of. Well, I felt like letting you all know... You know you want to leave me a happy birthday message. I know you do. So do it. Aight?

Aight.

Well, I will have some kind of good stuff up here in a bit. I guess I should update whatever I'm reading on the left sidebar, that *poop's off...

Peace

*Earlier I said "shit" but I thought that might prove offensive to the more "baptist" readers. So, I gave you poop.

I know all of you have been dying to know what I will be taking this semester. I just finished organizing my life for the upcoming term, so I thought I could share it with all of you!

History 101 (3) - Western Civilization 1: Mon. Wed. Fri.
History 111 (3) - US History 1: Tues. Thurs.
French 101 (4) - Elementary French: Mon. Tues. Wed. Fri.
Biology 100 (4) - Concepts of Biology: Mon. Wed. Fri.
Comm. 101 (3) - Fundamentals of Oral Communication: Mon. Wed. Fri.
English 102 (3) - English Composition 2: Tues. Thurs.

I'm going to lose my mind. 20 credit hours, after you add it all up. English major. History minor. Yep. Technically a Freshman... Keep me in your prayers.

UPDATE: 16 now. Thank God.

Sorry I haven't done too much with this thing recently. My attempt at a series on homosexuality just wasn't working out. I still stand where I stood in the beginning, but I am not sure if it proved to challenge my position or any other's very well... I think I will discontinue it now. If you kept up with it and enjoyed it, sorry...

Lynlea is moving away from us tomorrow. She is going to Boise for University. It will be good. She will enjoy the "big town" (as I do not think Boise counts as a city) far better than either Kimberly or Hagerman. I am going to go hang out with her today than help her move tomorrow. So, I doubt any of you will see me online for a while...

I have band practice on Saturday. I guess we are now adding vocals. I am a bit nervous, but it will be fun. They are all pretty talented.

I guess I am just in a state of "blah" right now. Concern. Excitement. Disappointment. Semi-happiness. I don't know. It will pass soon.

Peace

I am breaking my promise to not blog until I got back to either Louisville or Idaho. Whatever. Well, I got to meet a ton of people yesterday (or the day before) Seriously. I went to the Liturgical Prayer Seminar at Alan's house. God times. He has pics posted. It was nuts, check it out all these pimps: Kyle Potter, Alan Creech, Liz Creech, "White" Creech, Katey Creech, Debi Warford, Peter Matthews, Peter White, Dave Nixon, and a few others... Check 'em out!

Wow! So the last post had comments all over the board! I wasn't expecting so much feedback, honestly (and for the most part, fairly charitable) We had some good thought-provoking comments on both sides and also some tastless and/or pointless comments on both sides. Such is the nature of the beast, I suppose.

I had a point I would like to focus our discussion on with this comment made by our favorite Anglican, Kyle Potter:

For virtually everything else that the Christian scriptures consider to be a sin, there is either provided or implied some specific moral reason: we can say that sin is sin because it is demonstrably destructive of peoples' lives and their holiness and relationship with God.

The scriptures don't seem to provide much of a rationale as to why same-sex romantic relationships are destructive. Even if we follow the Genesis creation narratives and say that there is a "creative intent" from which those relationships depart, this does not demonstrate why that is a destructive departure.

The reality is that there are many ways of living that we could say are outside of "God's original intentions" that scripture is cool with or that the Church has agreed to permit. Once again, I submit to you the state of Christian attitudes on divorce and (re)marriage. (This is more difficult for Protestants, because Roman Catholics at least have some doctrinal consistancy in these matters.)

I don't know how you feel about this statement but it seems to make perfect sense in my mind. It may sound like "second-guessing the bible" and I think that's ok. Sola Scriptura never satisfied me. Chesterton said something to the effect of that when a thing begins to be doubted it becomes a true religion. That's not to say that scripture has little to no role in the faith-community, rather, that its role is strengthened by examining it extensively (even, at times, quite harshly)

Perhaps the strongest voice on the opposition to Kyle's comment was Ian Brown. He also leaves a comment on the inspirtation of scripture:

You say that Paul was just as culturally conditioned as you or anyone else. This is beyond question. However you fail to recognize that Paul's writings, and Paul's teachings are not on the same level as your teachings or your writings. And I'm not speaking of the literary value of anything you might distribute, I'm speaking of the difference between prophet, apostle and joe blow. Looking at what you said, I see no reason why I should take even Jesus' teachings seriously. Jesus said that looking at a woman is like adultery? So what? Well I say he was just a man. You say "He" was the Son of God? Well I do not believe you St. Peter, St. Paul, or St. John. Everyone has biases but not everyone has authority undergirding their doctrines and ideas. Hell, God has biases and "opinions".

Ian does make a good point. There are different levels of inspiration that God has granted amongst humankind. Yet I still would agree with Kyle, despite Ian's fine words. I believe that even St. Paul isn't above making biases according to his own cultural and traditional prejudices. He was inspired, surely, but he also was human. We can't ever forget that.

I would like to finish this post and begin this discussion with a comment by Day Zimlich. He left us all very wise words in regards to practical issues surrounding a conversation such as ours:

I know a lot of gay, lesbian, and bisexual people don't set their sexuality and spirituality on a collision course like i did, but I do want to ask the churches to please be gentle and sympathetic with teenagers and young adults like me. You are God's hands and feet. You are light and salt. These teenagers listen to you. I know it sounds cheesy, but use pastoral guidance, like the Good Shepherd.

"May God guide our conversation in kindess and charity."

Amen.

Looks like Rob and Ben Ben have tagged me. Whatever. Here seven songs I am enjoying as of right now:

1) mewithoutYou - Nice and Blue Pt . II
2) A Day to Remember - 1958
3) The Axe that Chopped the Cherry Tree - Privates in Public
4) Sigur Ros - Glosoli
5) Flaming Lips - Do you Realize?
6) Sufjan Stevens - John Wayne Gacy Jr.
7) Maylene and the Sons of Disaster - Gusty Like the Wind

Yah. Go listen to some real music. hehe... Well, I guess I'll tag: David, JHearne, Rick, Anthony, and Alan.

Speaking of music, I am going to go play with a "happy-hardcore" group tomorrow... Vocals. I guess they sound like numero dos on my little list up above... check it out and tell me what you think (Ian - don't check it out. You won't like it)

I hope to have my next post on our lovely discussion on homosexuality up next week. If anyone one was wondering why I didn't reply to any of the questions asked, I decided to wait until this post to address the ones I felt like. Because I am fickle like that. Well, here are some links for your enjoyment:

::Rick Mansfield talks about the TNIV::

::Josh Buice talks about gluttony in Southern Baptist Churches::

::Pontifications asks an interesting question about "sin nature"::

::David Brandt asks us about the "Gospel of Hell"::

::Kairos let's us know what's the coolest thing ever. And he's right.::

So, as many of you may know, mewithoutYou is my favorite band. I have always liked the crazy melodies and passionate vocals of this slightly less-than-usual band hailing from Pennsylvania (not to mention the tasty album art) I decided that I would email the band and ask them a few questions about their new album, their spirituality, and their life as fellow band members and brothers. Here is what I got from Aaron and Mike Weiss (vocalist and guitarist, respectively); thanks a ton, guys! :

1) " Tell me a little bit about the new album. What can we expect lyrically and musically?"

Mike: I think that the new album lyrically doesn't stray too far from the other mwY
albums. The songs seem to hold onto that urgency of finding God and loving one
another, self examination, nature and animals, and past relationships. Where
you'll see new territory I think is in how Aaron uses his voice and the tone
of the songs. A re-occuring song that comes in seperate sections on the album
is much like a childrens song with soft melodic singing. The first track is
much like a Dylan song in it's vocal delivery. There are other tracks with
Aarons known vocal shouting etc. as well, but we tried to balance the album
out a little with melody and background vocals. Musically, the new album is
much more open minded. We had a lot of friends come in and put their talents
to work with instruments like harp, horns, upright bass, Aaron plays some
accordian and acoutsic guitar, Jeremy Enigk sang on a couple of tracks. I am
confident in saying we made a "new" mewithoutYou record that drives the band
forward.

Aaron: Lyrically, there's more focus on G-d, less on the passing relationships and
troubles of this life. Musically, there's much more experimenting,
different rythyms and instrumentation and vocal melody. Much much better
than our earlier stuff, I think. As for maintaining "indie status," I dont
think we have much choice there!

2) "Are you looking forward to the upcoming fall tour? Are you planning any Idaho shows?"

Aaron: Not looking forward to the tour, no, tho I'm sure it will be wonderful.
Just trying to look at right now and be grateful for right now and if when
the tour comes I think I'll be very very grateful for that too. Don't know
about playing Idaho...

Mike: We are really exited to tour on this album, indeed! We just try to perfom the
music with passion and sincerity out there and I hope that makes it a special
time for anyone who shows up. I guess we might have some guests join us here
and there. who or when, I don't know :-) I do believe we are coming to Idaho
in early Sept... (*Mike Noakes jumps up and down in glee*)

3)"Aaron: I have been reading and meditating on the words of Jesus the Christ and Rumi the Poet recently. After doing so I listened to both of your albums again and noticed some striking similarities, additions, and alterations. How have these two spiritual writers (Prophet/Poet) been influential in the formation of your inner-life, self-understanding, and lyrical expressions?"

Mike: I can't answer that one because I'm not Aaron :-)

Aaron: Wow, quite a question! Jesus is my Rabbi and my teacher, above everyone
else. Rumi's poetry has helped me to love G-d more than any other, so I'm
indebted to him endlessly. Rumi loved Jesus, and Jesus loves Rumi, and I
don't see much difficulty in reconciling that. Both were drawn to the
lowly, both had a single-mindedness about doing the will of G-d, about
nothing else mattering. Both seemed aloof to doctrinal arrogance and
religious self-righteousness. Neither seemed to worry about anything. G-d
is one, one reality, one truth, one Love, whatever language we may use,
there is only one. May that One have mercy on us!

4) "Mike: What effect does your music have on your spiritual life? Do you find it to be enriching, challenging, and/or a combination of the two?"

Mike: I believe that in the performance of the music, I'm more easily directed
towards what I see as God's love in this world. Partly because it's a way to
bring lots of people together in celebration or catharsis etc. through sound
and rhythm and partly because of Aaron's lyrics which make me think more
deeply about this life. The challenge lies in putting on a good performance
night after night and always getting in touch with these things. I do consider
myself a "Christ follower" in so much as I try follow Christ. I don't always
do such a great job in that. I think Jesus' teachings have really guided me
spiritually for the past ten years or so. I don't really read a lot of books
about spirituality, but I like to go to church.

5) "Mike: What guitarists have been influential in your own personal style?"

Mike: Lately it's been David Gilmour, Johnny Marr, Doug Martsh, Bernard Butler, John Fruciante, Omar Rodriquez, Ian and Guy from Fugazi and that kind of stuff...

6) Will any of the proceeds from the upcoming tour go to any charities/social justice programs? If so, which ones and why?"


7) "As brothers, both biological and as fellow band members, how does spending so much time with one another impact your sibling-relationships?"

Aaron: Haven't had the fighting instinct for a decade or two. Nowadays we get
along wonderfully, as friends and bandmates and brothers and fools,
fumbling together along and asking for grace, and so often finding it.

Mike: I think that it allows us to even have a real relationship with one another.

With all the time we are away on tour, to be in the band together simply gives
us time together rather than time apart. From that i think we've continued in
our brotherly relationship we've always had since the beginning of our lives.
We've always been close for some reason. maybe it's the closeness in age or
our genetic make up or something. We do disagree on a lot of fundamental sort
of things, but that's just the reality of being in a band.

8) "Do you align yourselves with any specific local-gathering of Christ-followers, whether a formally established church or not?"

Mike: I have been going to an Episcopalian church when we are home from touring for

over a year and a half now, and I really love it. I would say it's more on
the moderate side of conservative churches. Very liturgical and traditional.
Several parts of the service remind me of a Catholic mass. Our priest says that the
Episcopal Church is "Catholic Light" great taste, half the guilt. ha ha :-)

Aaron: I belong to a Mennonite church in Philly, worship at my mom's Sufi mosque
from time to time, and hover around other rogue groups of doubters.

9) "Do you have anything else you would like to say to you fans and friends who will be reading this?"

Aaron: Pray for me, that I would understand truly that I don't need anything that
hasn't already been given me.

Mike: "Be excellent to each other, and party on dudes!!"
-Bill S. Preston and Ted Theodore Logan